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Daniel P.


Posts: 3
Registered:
April 2007
species and reactions outside of models 03 May '07 02:36 Go to next message

Hello,

I have a question: Is it possible to define species or reaction objects outside of models? All examples in the documentation are defined within a model. Probably I overlooked something, but I can't find a hint that it isn't possible to define them outside of one.

      
Stefan.Hoops


Posts: 170
Registered:
December 2006
Re: species and reactions outside of models 04 May '07 06:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Hello Daniel,

The simple answer is no it is not possible to define reactions and
other objects outside a model. In chapter 4.1 of the SBML specifications
it says that the top level of an SBML file is the the SBML container
which must include exactly one Model element. I hope that helps.

Thanks,
Stefan


On Thu, 03 May 2007 03:42:50 -0700 (PDT)
Daniel Primaveßy <s9daprim@stud.uni-saarland.de> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> I have a question: Is it possible to define species or reaction
> objects outside of models? All examples in the documentation are
> defined within a model. Probably I overlooked something, but I can't
> find a hint that it isn't possible to define them outside of one.
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> To manage your sbml-discuss list subscription, visit
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>
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> contact sbml-team@caltech.edu.


--
Stefan Hoops, Ph.D.
Senior Project Associate
Virginia Bioinformatics Institute - 0477
Virginia Tech
Bioinformatics Facility I
Blacksburg, Va 24061, USA

Phone: (540) 231-1799
Fax: (540) 231-2606
Email: shoops@vbi.vt.edu
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Mike Hucka


Posts: 961
Registered:
October 2003
Re: species and reactions outside of models 04 May '07 07:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message

s9daprim> I have a question: Is it possible to define
s9daprim> species or reaction objects outside of models?
s9daprim> All examples in the documentation are defined
s9daprim> within a model. Probably I overlooked something,
s9daprim> but I can't find a hint that it isn't possible
s9daprim> to define them outside of one.

In addition to Stefan's reply about the definition, I'm
curious about what the meaning or purpose of defining an
entity outside of a model would be. Maybe you are trying to
accomplish something that can be done in another way. Can
you elaborate on the context of your question?

MH

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Daniel P.


Posts: 3
Registered:
April 2007
Re: species and reactions outside of models 04 May '07 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message

shoops


In chapter 4.1 of the SBML specifications [...]


You're right - pretty obvious.. sorry and thanks!

Mike Hucka


Can you elaborate on the context of your question?


Of course. I'm writing a PlugIn to export pathways and their topologies to SBML and BioPAX. BioPAX isn't a problem at all, but for SBML my idea was to map all kind of molecules to the Species class, all kind of reactions to the Reaction class and all kind of Pathways to the model class.
This works perfectly if I have just one pathway to export, but if I have a reaction or a molecule that is not part of a pathway I would need to export it outside of a model. If I had more than one pathway to export I would need to write more than one model class.
Looks as if this isn't going to work at all.


Daniel

      
Nicolas Le Novere


Posts: 469
Registered:
October 2003
Re: species and reactions outside of models 04 May '07 22:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message


> Of course. I'm writing a PlugIn to export pathways and their topologies to
> SBML and BioPAX. BioPAX isn't a problem at all, but for SBML my idea was
> to map all kind of molecules to the Species class, all kind of reactions
> to the Reaction class and all kind of Pathways to the model class.
> This works perfectly if I have just one pathway to export, but if I have a
> reaction or a molecule that is not part of a pathway I would need to
> export it outside of a model.

It is not part of a pathway, but it is still part of a compartment, isn't it?

> If I had more than one pathway to export I
> would need to write more than one model class.

And what if a species belongs to several pathways? Would-you write several
species representing the same pool?

I think in your case, you need to write down different models (therefore
different SBML file in L2V3). Just take care of the annotations of species
and compartments, so that merging is easy afterward.

But it also boils down to the fact that SBML is not a format to represent
Pathways ...

(that says, all your issues: groupings, tagging, model composition etc.
have been discussed in the past, and will be again. I encourage you to
saty in touch and participate to the development of SBML Level 3)

--
Nicolas LE NOVERE, Computational Neurobiology,
EMBL-EBI, Wellcome-Trust Genome Campus, Hinxton, Cambridge, CB10 1SD, UK
Tel: +44(0)1223494521, Fax: +44(0)1223494468, Mob: +44(0)7833147074
http://www.ebi.ac.uk/~lenov, AIM:nlenovere, MSN:nlenovere@hotmail.com

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Daniel P.


Posts: 3
Registered:
April 2007
Re: species and reactions outside of models 05 May '07 16:45 Go to previous message

The system from which I am exporting does not consider something like a compartment. It is arbitrary for me to choose anything as compartment as long as I choose something.
If a species belongs to more than one pathway or reaction it wouldn't matter if I use one pool twice or two pools once. The only thing that counts is that the species is taking part in the reaction.

The problem simply is that SBML and the system from which I am exporting are not compatible. I did know that for months, but I have to do it anyway, so I just wanted to ensure that I did it the right way.

thanks for the help everybody

      
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