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Ed Frank


Posts: 42
Registered:
September 2003
Re: type of stoichiometry 09 Feb '05 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to previous message


On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 08:48:54PM +0000, Darren Wilkinson wrote:

> Now, if the numbers of molecules involved are quite large (but not large
> enough to justify a deterministic simulation), then the continuous
> diffusion approximation to the discrete-state Markov process might be
> acceptable.

That's one approximation. Would the following be another for the case
of a reaction corresponding to biomass formation? I'm going to treat
the biomass formation process essentially as something draining
species from the model. I keep a _fractional_ tally per involved
species, aside from the "real" species tally. The former is
fractional (to be explained) and the latter is always integral.

If know a rate for this biomass accumulation reaction, then I know its
probability per unit time. On each occurance, I bump up the
fractional tallies of all involved species by the fractional
stoichiometry. If that causes any to surpass an integer, I decrement
the "real" tally by the integral amount and keep the remainder in the
fractional tally. Meanwhile, all the normal steps in the simulation
just work off of the integral, "real" tallies.

The approximation here is gentler than the one above. If the number
of molecules is large enough that the ratio of the fractional
accumulator to the number of molecules is small enough, then the
impact on any computed probability based upon the integral number is
small. This is perhaps a weaker constraint than that needed for
continuous diffussion?

The price you pay is that mass is not balanced instantaneously, but
only on average and with a precision corresponding to the ratio
of fractional to "real" tallies. I'm willing to say that the
biomass comosition is fluctuating and the rest of the system
remains balanced.

In a sense, I'm putting a parasitic element into the sim to drain off
species when the impact is acceptable. That element of the sim is
driven by a probability-per-unit time associated with the biomass
reaction. Meanwhile, the normal stochastic sim is clunking along.

I'm making this up off the top of my head as I type. It shows.

-Ed

--
Ed Frank 630-252-4548 (-5986, fax)
Division of Math & Computer Science Argonne National Laboratory

      

SubjectPosterDate
Read Message   SBML Semantic Test Suite - Beta Release Andrew Finney19 Oct '04 07:59
Read Message   Re: SBML Semantic Test Suite - Beta Release rmachne25 Oct '04 09:07
Read Message   SBML Semantic Test Suite - results for BioUML work... Fedor Kolpakov10 Jan '05 03:16
Read Message   RE: SBML Semantic Test Suite - results for BioUML ... Andrew Finney10 Jan '05 03:41
Read Message   Re: RE: SBML Semantic Test Suite - results for Bio... Fedor Kolpakov10 Jan '05 05:59
Read Message   RE: Re: RE: SBML Semantic Test Suite - results for... Herbert Sauro10 Jan '05 08:50
Read Message   Re: Re: RE: SBML Semantic Test Suite - results fo... rmachne10 Jan '05 13:17
Read Message   Re: RE: SBML Semantic Test Suite - BioUML passed 1... Fedor Kolpakov14 Jan '05 08:20
Read Message   Re: SBML Semantic Test Suite - results for BioUML... Mike Hucka03 Feb '05 18:57
Read Message   Re: SBML Semantic Test Suite - results for BioUML... Fedor Kolpakov07 Feb '05 06:43
Read Message   type of stoichiometry Hiroyuki Kuwahara08 Feb '05 14:51
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Mike Hucka08 Feb '05 16:48
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Hiroyuki Kuwahara08 Feb '05 16:59
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Nicolas Le Novere09 Feb '05 00:32
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry zucker08 Feb '05 18:21
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Pedro Mendes09 Feb '05 06:20
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Hiroyuki Kuwahara09 Feb '05 11:34
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Darren J Wilkinson09 Feb '05 12:48
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry  Ed Frank09 Feb '05 15:56
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Howard09 Feb '05 21:22
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Hiroyuki Kuwahara10 Feb '05 07:23
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Darren J Wilkinson10 Feb '05 13:05
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Hiroyuki Kuwahara10 Feb '05 14:52
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Darren J Wilkinson10 Feb '05 23:30
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Howard10 Feb '05 17:27
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Darren J Wilkinson10 Feb '05 13:52
Read Message   Re: Hybrid stochastic methods Howard10 Feb '05 17:39
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Pedro Mendes09 Feb '05 15:49
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry Hiro Kuwahara09 Feb '05 16:56
Read Message   Re: type of stoichiometry J.Weimar09 Feb '05 00:06
Read Message   RE: type of stoichiometry Herbert Sauro09 Feb '05 06:53
Read Message   RE: type of stoichiometry Andrew Finney09 Feb '05 07:34
Read Message   RE: type of stoichiometry hugh.d.spence09 Feb '05 08:06
Read Message   RE: type of stoichiometry Herbert Sauro09 Feb '05 22:10
Read Message   RE: type of stoichiometry Herbert Sauro09 Feb '05 22:12
Read Message   RE: type of stoichiometry Herbert Sauro09 Feb '05 22:13
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