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bshapiro


Posts: 60
Registered:
September 2003
Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to controlled vocabularies 21 Dec '05 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to previous message

Here's my point: reactions may include more than one parameter, and
we need to identify which parameter is which. For example, suppose we
know that a reaction is Michaelis-Menten-Henri, and we know the k1
and the kD. We can not specify this information without giving the
entire math field, because even though the kineticlaw is optional,
if the kineticLaw is present the math is required, and the parameters
are inside of the kinetic law.

Because of this, the sboterms are completely redundant - we can't
have an sboterm on a parameter unless we also have the math.

For example, in the following the SBO terms can be safely ignored:

<reaction id="mmhex" name="Michaelis-Menten-Henri Example"
reversible="false" fast="false">
<listOfReactants>
<speciesReference species="S"/>
</listOfReactants>
<listOfProducts>
<speciesReference species="P"/>
</listOfProducts>
<listOfModifiers/>
<kineticLaw timeUnits="time" substanceUnits="substance"
sboTerm="http://biomodels.net/SBO/#SBO:2222222"/>
<math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML">
<apply>
<divide/>
<apply>
<times/>
<ci>k1</ci>
<ci>S</ci>
</apply>
<apply>
<plus/>
<ci>kD</ci>
<ci>S</ci>
</apply>
</apply>
</math>
<listOfParameters>
<parameter id="k1" value="1" sboTerm="http://biomodels.net/SBO/
#SBO:3333333"//>
<parameter id="kD" value="1" sboTerm="http://biomodels.net/SBO/
#SBO:4444444"//>
</listOfParameters>
</kineticLaw>
</reaction>

but in the following, which is INVALID SBML because it does not have
a math field, All THREE sboterms are needed. If any of the SBOTerms
are omitted, its not possible to figure out the reaction law.

<reaction id="mmhex" name="Michaelis-Menten-Henri Example"
reversible="false" fast="false">
<listOfReactants>
<speciesReference species="S"/>
</listOfReactants>
<listOfProducts>
<speciesReference species="P"/>
</listOfProducts>
<listOfModifiers/>
<kineticLaw timeUnits="time" substanceUnits="substance"
sboTerm="http://biomodels.net/SBO/#SBO:2222222"/>
<listOfParameters>
<parameter id="k1" value="1" sboTerm="http://biomodels.net/SBO/
#SBO:3333333"//>
<parameter id="kD" value="1" sboTerm="http://biomodels.net/SBO/
#SBO:4444444"//>
</listOfParameters>
</kineticLaw>
</reaction>


BES



On Dec 21, 2005, at 5:48 AM, Michael Hucka wrote:

> MH> But, won't a parameter declared as (e.g.) "rate
> MH> constant for first-order mass action" remain the same
> MH> no matter if the kinetic law itself is changed? Or
> MH> (e.g.) "Michaelis constant"?
>
> hds> But the name is OPTIONAL in the spec. There is
> hds> nothing to say that the parameter must be declared
> hds> with such a meaningfull name [...]
>
> Of course. The "declarations" I was referring to are
> sboTerm references, not the names. Parameter would look
> like the following example:
>
> <listOfParameters>
> <parameter id="k" sboTerm="http://biomodels.net/SBO/#SBO:
> 3333333"/>
> </listOfParameters>
>
> where the value of sboTerm is an identifier standing for
> (e.g.) "rate constant for first-order mass action" in the
> controlled vocabulary.
>
> MH
>

      

SubjectPosterDate
Read Message   SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to con... Mike Hucka13 Dec '05 14:21
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References t... Ralph.Gauges15 Dec '05 06:57
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... hugh.d.spence15 Dec '05 10:02
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Ralph.Gauges16 Dec '05 00:27
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere16 Dec '05 10:11
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Sven Sahle19 Dec '05 04:53
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... hugh.d.spence16 Dec '05 10:56
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard16 Dec '05 11:43
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... hugh.d.spence19 Dec '05 04:00
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard19 Dec '05 09:19
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Martin Ginkel21 Dec '05 12:26
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard21 Dec '05 15:30
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References t... Nicolas Le Novere16 Dec '05 01:27
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References t... Mike Hucka20 Dec '05 11:31
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References t... Nicolas Le Novere20 Dec '05 16:05
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References t... Mike Hucka20 Dec '05 19:42
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References t... bshapiro15 Dec '05 12:15
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References t... Mike Hucka20 Dec '05 19:50
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References t... Ben Bornstein21 Dec '05 09:25
Read Message   RE: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Ralph.Gauges17 Dec '05 09:11
Read Message   RE: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere19 Dec '05 08:52
Read Message   RE: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka20 Dec '05 15:11
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Ralph.Gauges21 Dec '05 02:04
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka02 Jan '06 23:33
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere03 Jan '06 00:21
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka03 Jan '06 15:30
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere04 Jan '06 03:08
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere06 Jan '06 10:37
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Martin Ginkel05 Jan '06 01:44
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere03 Jan '06 00:50
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... hugh.d.spence05 Jan '06 05:29
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere05 Jan '06 11:01
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... hugh.d.spence06 Jan '06 02:48
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere06 Jan '06 10:32
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... hugh.d.spence03 Jan '06 04:30
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka03 Jan '06 20:55
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... bshapiro03 Jan '06 12:52
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Stefan Hoops03 Jan '06 14:16
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka03 Jan '06 15:39
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere04 Jan '06 03:02
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Stefan Hoops04 Jan '06 09:46
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka03 Jan '06 14:24
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere04 Jan '06 02:55
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard19 Dec '05 09:22
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Ralph.Gauges20 Dec '05 01:48
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard20 Dec '05 11:13
Read Message   RE: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka20 Dec '05 19:56
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... bshapiro20 Dec '05 20:18
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka20 Dec '05 23:55
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... hugh.d.spence21 Dec '05 02:18
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka21 Dec '05 05:48
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to...  bshapiro21 Dec '05 11:35
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard21 Dec '05 15:44
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Stefan Hoops22 Dec '05 07:30
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard22 Dec '05 09:22
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Stefan Hoops22 Dec '05 10:12
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Pedro Mendes22 Dec '05 10:23
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard22 Dec '05 11:18
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... zucker22 Dec '05 11:54
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard22 Dec '05 12:13
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Ralph.Gauges23 Dec '05 01:02
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka02 Jan '06 20:49
Read Message   Partial compliance [was] SBML L2v2 specification ... Nicolas Le Novere03 Jan '06 00:08
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... bshapiro22 Dec '05 12:05
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard22 Dec '05 12:21
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka23 Dec '05 09:07
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard23 Dec '05 10:07
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere22 Dec '05 05:23
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Stefan Hoops22 Dec '05 08:25
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere22 Dec '05 10:19
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Stefan Hoops22 Dec '05 10:31
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... bshapiro22 Dec '05 10:58
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka22 Dec '05 12:29
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Darren J Wilkinson23 Dec '05 12:12
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka23 Dec '05 15:46
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Hiroyuki Kuwahara24 Dec '05 22:01
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka03 Jan '06 00:33
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Hiroyuki Kuwahara04 Jan '06 10:27
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka04 Jan '06 11:49
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka02 Jan '06 22:23
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka02 Jan '06 20:20
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Howard21 Dec '05 10:29
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Sven Sahle22 Dec '05 01:56
Read Message   RE: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Nicolas Le Novere21 Dec '05 10:08
Read Message   RE: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... zucker21 Dec '05 11:02
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Ralph.Gauges22 Dec '05 02:53
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Ralph.Gauges22 Dec '05 02:57
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Stefan Hoops22 Dec '05 08:10
Read Message   RE: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Herbert Sauro22 Dec '05 13:08
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... zucker23 Dec '05 22:28
Read Message   Re: SBML L2v2 specification vote #4: References to... Mike Hucka26 Dec '05 09:11
Read Message   Results of SBML L2v2 specification survey vote #4 Mike Hucka04 Jan '06 23:37
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